THE INTREPIDS & THE INSTITUTION WEBPAGE

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 Post subject: New +Perception IO of Issue 11 (Calling all number people)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:34 pm 
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There is a new ToHit Buff Set, came with Issue 11, called Rectified Reticle and one of the IOs in that set gives a global perception of +20%. It's not a Unique IO so it can be used on several powers...

So I call all number people of the SG to help me on these issues:


1) What is the perception value to see a stalker with Hide + Stealth + 1xTravel Power Stealth IO on?

2) What is the perception value of Tactics and Focused Accuracy?


Reason: Because I intend to drop Assault & Tactics from all of my toons and slot as many +perception IOs as needed to see stalkers.

Thanks.

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@blastor-eu

The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:51 pm 
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hmmm... 20% seems an odd figure for them to quote... seeing as the way I understood it stealth and perception worked in a slightly more complicated way than that.

Basically, as I saw it, Perception added to your 'vision' range. Stealth subtracted from it. The difference was the 'range' at which you could see an individual.

So does this perception IO add 20% to your perception gained from other sources? or does it have a fixed value of 20% of the base perception?


...


ah.. OK... my understanding was not perfect, but not far off.

Blast?.. the information you seek can be found here

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----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Good question Blast. Wish I knew the answer. I also wish they'd fix the third glaring hole in the whole perception issue:

3) what bleeding value is Invisbility from the Concealment set?!?!?!

Invisbility used to be great. What I wish they would do, which makes a lot more sense to me, is make visibility a range/distance based facility in the same way that stealth only works until you get to close. Aruguably a stalker should have the shortest range so that he can AS from hidden - but only from behind I would make it. All other adjustments to perception should adjust the range of perception, not the magnitude.

What sense does it make at all that someone with Tactics can see an Invisible or a stealthed toon 300 yards away? It doesn't.

I really think the devs should totally rethink the invisibility/perception issue.

But would love to know the answer Blast. :D

PS Issue 11 has landed!!!

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:05 pm 
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Having read up on it I think it's calculated pretty well.

Bear in mind as well that, unless things have changed, there is something of a rock/paper/scissors aspect in that you need one +percept effect per stealth effect... or you did.

But X.. take a look at the link I posted.

*edit* after a second look at those figures... I think all they need to do is tone down the perception values... they seem awfully high and essentially, if you want to be stealthy you're forced to rely on having 1 more stealth power than your opponent has perception power.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:31 pm 
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One more question, now from a stalker point of view...

Does Stealth IO bonus stack? I, for instance, have 3 travel powers on my stalker's build: Hover, SS & TP. If I slot one Stealth IO on each one and use them one after another would it mean that I'll have 3 stealth power on, excluding Hide & Stealth from Concealment pool?

_________________
@blastor-eu

The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:32 pm 
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Thanks Ebo. I just did. Unfortunately it still doesn't make sense to me based on my experience. It might just me being dim of course but here's their example:

Example: Normally, if I stood 20' from a Troll, he would need a Perception of 20 to notice I was there. If I had a Stealth of 35, he would need a Perception of 55 to detect me.

So when the author says the troll 'would need a perception of 20' does he mean that a troll usually does have a perception of 20' AND, more importantly what happens exatly when you step inside that radius?

Presumably all toons have no stealthyness at all (as the guide says) so as soon as you step inside this trolls standard 20ft perception radius he can see you. That makes sense. But in the same example we now switch on our Stealth power, let's say it's stealth value is 35. So what has the 20ft perception radius have to do with it anymore? As we all know a standard stealth power (Stealth from Concealment) lets you get to about 7-10ft (I guess) before you are seen. And of course, if you have Invisible on (from the Concealment set) then a standard minion and most leuitenants can not see you at all even if you jump up and down on their heads. So what is this 20ft radius crap all about?

Equally in PVP it doesn't make any difference, from memory (this might not be correct thinking about it) but regardless if you have stealth on or invisibility (I've tested both comrehensively) someone with Tactics running can see you standing on the other side of the map (more or less). NB there is no difference between being in stealth mode or using Invisibility. You can be seen equally. I used to really like Invisibility but there is no reason/use for this power at all (except for a stalker who just wants to hide in the background?). That's wrong.

Unless I've misunderstood (again)? :wink:

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:11 pm 
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Answers to all Stealth/Perception questions can be found here.

_________________
@blastor-eu

The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Thanks Blast. Except that link doesn't answer any questions. It just asks a load. :D

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:24 am 
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Blastor wrote:
Does Stealth IO bonus stack? I, for instance, have 3 travel powers on my stalker's build: Hover, SS & TP. If I slot one Stealth IO on each one and use them one after another would it mean that I'll have 3 stealth power on, excluding Hide & Stealth from Concealment pool?


If Stealth IO is refering to the kind of IO that gives stealth from pre-i11 (didn't check to see if i11 gave any new kind yet), then the simple answer is no, they don't stack. In fact, the description clearly says that "This enhancement is Unique. No more than one enhancement of this type can be slotted by a character."

As for the discussion in general, I hope for the sake of the stalker AT that they've also added something that enables stalkers to beat these +perception IO's. Otherwise stalker will be kinda pointless in pvp, probably laying the AT quite dead.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:53 am 
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Know what you mean Glad:
Glad wrote:
Otherwise stalker will be kinda pointless in pvp, probably laying the AT quite dead.

But on the other hand you could very easily argue that PVP zones are already dead BECAUSE of stalkers. Unless you are a Focused Accuracy, Tactics, SR stalker-killer (or a stalker) why would you even want to go into those stupid zones anyway?

I have two high level stalkers and I love them (to death, hehe) but I don't take any satisfaction at all from wandering around an empty PVP zone just so I can slice some dim wit defender who happens to stummble into the zone without any stalker defences.

That's why I've been bleating on about how the whole perception/stealth thing is all wrong. I think that it's a mistake that stalkers can remain invisible when standing right in front of a target. It never made any sense from the first time I rolled a stalker (when CoV was first launched).

If the dev's made stealth perception more realistic (like 0ft radius from the target but only if you're standing right behind a toon/mob) then skill (vs stupidity) comes right back into it and killing mobs becomes more entertaining again.

But also stalkers still do great damage whether they have been seen or not. If you have Hide running you can land an AS regardless of whether you've been seen or not. Powers like placate, Elude, Overload, Kuji-In Retsu, Intimidate, Invoke Panic, Blinding Powder and Smoke Flash all allow a stalker to go about his/her business almost regardless.

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:12 pm 
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Gladiana wrote:
Blastor wrote:
Does Stealth IO bonus stack? I, for instance, have 3 travel powers on my stalker's build: Hover, SS & TP. If I slot one Stealth IO on each one and use them one after another would it mean that I'll have 3 stealth power on, excluding Hide & Stealth from Concealment pool?


If Stealth IO is refering to the kind of IO that gives stealth from pre-i11 (didn't check to see if i11 gave any new kind yet), then the simple answer is no, they don't stack. In fact, the description clearly says that "This enhancement is Unique. No more than one enhancement of this type can be slotted by a character."

As for the discussion in general, I hope for the sake of the stalker AT that they've also added something that enables stalkers to beat these +perception IO's. Otherwise stalker will be kinda pointless in pvp, probably laying the AT quite dead.


Hey Glad,

Each particular Stealth IO for a specific travel type is unique. For instance you can only use 1x Freebird Stealth IO if you only have Flight pool in your build, however, if the toon has different types of travel powers, ie. Super Speed, TP, just like in my stalker's build I can also slot 1x Celerity Stealth IO for Super Speed and/or 1x Time & Space Manipulation Stealth on TP, theoretically improving my stealth...

But now I see that the use of more than 1 travel power Stealth IO is unnecessary for Stalkers according to the link I posted earlier, which says:

1) A Stalker with Hide + Stealth + Stealth IO is always at the Stalker Stealth cap, regardless of level.

2) A Non-Stalker with a Stealth Power + Stealth IO is always at the Non-Stalker Stealth Cap, regardless of level.

3) One perception buff will always let any toon see a non-stalker.

_________________
@blastor-eu

The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:21 pm 
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yous lot are all all mental (in the nisest possable way of course) you realise that dont you :D

right this is how i understand stealth works and for the most part it seems to correct

bob the troll can see things up to 20ft away (could be further i dont do numbers) if a player wonders into this area he's gona try and hit you

if the player has stealth in some form be it IO pool power or from primery secondery they can get closer than the 20ft without being spotted if the player has invis then they can walk right up and moon at the troll and not be spotted

and thats how invis and stealth work as far as standared pve mobs are conserned

now the devs in there infinet wisdom gave some mobs tatic like abilites (rikti drones/some rips/malta) this effectivly allows them to see further say 25 foot perhaps this is thanks to amazingly keen eyesight or advanced sensors or some what however the stalthed player will be able to get within that 25 fot radius before being spotted because the your super stealth and as such harder to see

its basicall like scales add preception = see further add stealth = be harder to see

PvP works pretty much the same with a few exeption in pvp stealth and preception powers seem to cancel eatch other out for example

stalker with hide cant be seen by tank

tank takes tatics so it can now see stalker at standared range

stalker takes stealth + hide so can oncedance on tanks head

tank takes tatics and focused acc

tank now slaps stalker for dancing

stalker takes stelth io + hide + stealth

and is once again safe from tank till tank takes minerals(if stone) or finds him self a defender pal

dose that make sence?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:34 pm 
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It does. And you're right Mess. I guess I was just getting cross that both Invisibility and Stealth were treated the same by a singular application of Tactics and similar powers. Nuff said though. Nice thread Blast. Some very good lil points in here.

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:09 pm 
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well to get technical there not actually treated the same it just so happens that tatics is strong anuff to counter act both stealth and invis (not at the same time tho) intrestingly tho im sure superior invis is actually better than tatics (and you can stack it with group invis a stealth IO and maybe stealth for a supper sneeky troller)

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Angus(1), Mr Meccano(9), Hard Target(5), Big Zero(18), Anubis(9), Dummy(1)

CoH Globals: @MESS or @TRASH
Heroes
MESS (50) Tank

Villians
Tainted Mess (50) Brute, TRASH (50) Brute, Magmite (50) Brute, Smelt Furnace (50) Brute

The rest of my Alts

Twitter (don't expect me to update it)

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Catz wrote:
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You are God like!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:54 pm 
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Very glad you pointed that out to me then Blast. I was assuming "this type" was refering to the +stealth type, while it seems it's refering to the celerity +stealth type as 1 type and the other +stalth io's as other types. I'll make sure to make room for both sprint +stealth and cj/sj +stealth as well on my next respec =)

As for X's nice reply. What you're saying might be true. I'm not sure I'm convinced tho. I don't think the pvp is dead in this game cause of stalkers. I think it's dead cause of 1) the kind of player attracted to this game, and 2) the game was built for pve, not pvp; frankly the combat just isn't interresting enough to do that much pvp. I mean.. either your build is superior, or somebody elses is. It's more about skill in making a build, and getting the right sets, than skill in combat.

Anyhow.. nice thread aye.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:47 pm 
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I think you're right there Glad:
Glad wrote:
the game was built for pve, not pvp; frankly the combat just isn't interresting enough to do that much pvp. I mean.. either your build is superior, or somebody elses is. It's more about skill in making a build, and getting the right sets, than skill in combat.

From memory you came quite recently from WoW (amongst others?). Well you should have seen CoH before PVP (i4), tanks could not be killed, controllers could not kill, it was a right laugh. And you're right a very different game then and now. I think PVP is getting more interesting though and the Dual Blades combo initiative has to be a good thing. So who knows what the future holds.

They just need to fix one or two remainging niggles - like the perception thing - and get a lot more new powers/content in.

Shouldn't take more than a few more years. :D

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:59 pm 
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Ya, I was rather seriously invested in WoW there for a while.

I don't think I started CoH untill i5 or 7 or some such. Quite far back.. Before CoV at any rate. But I've taken CoX in moderation, unlike WoW.

In any event, you're right that the game has evolved. Still, no matter how you look at it, they don't have much of a positional/tactical movement aspect to CoX. And the super movement makes for too much mobility to make people stuck in a combat they start. (Unless there's heavy slow/imob/hold, in which case the fight is quickly over, and uninterresting.)

I mean.. when you click a power in WoW, you must be behind the target for a backstabbing move to work. In CoX, if you're not facing your opponent, the character turns automatically. This makes for easy management, but uninterresting pvp.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:12 am 
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Mess wrote:
yous lot are all all mental (in the nisest possable way of course) you realise that dont you :D

right this is how i understand stealth works and for the most part it seems to correct

bob the troll can see things up to 20ft away (could be further i dont do numbers) if a player wonders into this area he's gona try and hit you

if the player has stealth in some form be it IO pool power or from primery secondery they can get closer than the 20ft without being spotted if the .........blah blah blah


Love this explanation Mess :D

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:18 am 
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Yep. I think they did the same in LOTRO:
Glad wrote:
I mean.. when you click a power in WoW, you must be behind the target for a backstabbing move to work. In CoX, if you're not facing your opponent, the character turns automatically. This makes for easy management, but uninterresting pvp.

It makes more sense. Everyone fears an assassin but its always the stab from behind, poisen in the ear, type move you think about. CoX should adopt that for sure. It reminds me a fav old C game series I liked: Commando. They used the same system, set in WW2, and all the mob toons had a field of vision that you actual see and had to duck out the way all the time. It was a good idea. It looked a bit weird though. Large red red triangles coming out all the Nazi heads. hehe.

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:23 pm 
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the problem with vectored atakeing in a comic book based game tho is about a million fold the idea of sneeking up on some things in comic book land just dosent work

I mean how do you sneek up on a robot with 360 degree sensors or a mutant with enhnced sences you would need to be really good say as good as a stalker whos invisable when there right in your face to do it properly there would need to be hole slew of new power option to give you enhnced senses which of course 99% of players would take so it becoms a bit pointles

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:48 pm 
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No you wouldn't mess. You're being silly. It's how the game works now when you walk up behind a normal mob. :P

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Imo when you design a game, you have to make a lot of decisions.. like what's the target players, what is the genre, and in this case, how much realism vs simplicity do we want?

CoX was designed, afaik, around the idea that they didn't want a lot of equipment, they wanted action at a moments notice. They wanted to target players comming in and playing 1h then going away, as well as the hard core players gaming for hours on end. They wanted flashy, they wanted tankers able to stand there and feel like kings while loads of mobs that would kill the tankers friends in seconds are pounding on him. They wanted blasters that could beat down those hordes of mobs, they wanted scrappers who can down those hard to kill tough bosses, they wanted buffers, and healers and controllers.. and they wanted this to work seamlessly, without the need for players to worry overly about who and what the team consisted of.

The game has evolved however, we now have equipment (IO sets), we now have pvp (requires adjustment of those roles so that most AT's have a chance against most others).. and so on and so forth.

Now they just added combat-cycles/power-sequences, and I'm betting they'll introduce more. They're evolving the gameplay from buttonmashing to something a bit more intelligent. Maybe the next step will be positioning, and vector-based combat. Who knows.. I'm staying tuned. It'll be interresting to see where the new dev team will take CoX.

But I believe I'm now so far off topic, that I'll definately stfu right now. =)


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