THE INTREPIDS & THE INSTITUTION WEBPAGE

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 Post subject: Fighting Power Pool Set
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:26 am 
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I have been playing for near two years now and have never taken the Fighting Pool for any toon.

I have seen it mentioned a few times by people who are tanks and scrappers so that explains why i haven't taken it....as i dont normally play Melee alts. :?

I have looked at the set at it appears to give a tiny bit of defense, but not a great deal. Does this reaaly make a big difference when taken?
Can someone advise what this set is best used for?

Thanks :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:40 am 
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Hey Betty..

Generally the Fighting Pool (specifically Tough and Weave) are used to 'top up' Resistance or Defence (or both).

Since the Global Defence Nerf (I5 iirc) and ED (I6) tankers have generally not been able to approach the RES of DEF caps with their own tanker primary powersets... adding Tough and/or Weave in can help lift their defences just that bit more.

If you already have some RES or DEF it can be well worth toping up, even if the amount you add is relatively small. For example, with RES of 60% already, adding another 10% RES actually reduces the damage you take by 25%. That's since you just reduced the damage taken from 40% of the attackers damage output to 30% of it.

So Tough and Weave can be extremely useful, but only really if you have already built up some defences from main powers.... hence why really they are only of use to Scrappers or Tankers.

Hope that helps :D

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@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:12 pm 
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Thanks Ebon :D

I think i will have to try it. I have a tank at level 32. It's Stone/Energy. I wonder if i will notice the difference?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:32 pm 
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generaly i work on the opinion that any defence is good defence even the slightest chance of avoiding that big hit is good this is one of teh reasons i almost allways take combat jumping as it gives that slim chance you wont take one of those big hit.


But i've only ever taken the fighting pool on 2 alts as having to miss out 3 powers from my primery/secondery is normaly to much for me to bare (i like my attake powers :D )

1 alt is my curent invul/EM tank eidlon which is based on make him as hard as he can be thery and even with just tuff on top of my invul toggkes i can happily combat jump thrue PI without to much risk to my health

the other alt was a petless thugs/dark MM it worked ok and he had a pretty good survival record tho i got board of just 3 ranged attakes and he went to alt heaven

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:37 pm 
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I used Tough & Weave only on my energy/energy brute so far and it really made a difference.

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@blastor-eu

The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Well.. I'm not sure how well you know the actual formulas for hitting stuff. If you don't I suggest you look it up. For it is not as simple as opponent having +acc 5%, and you having +def 5%, cancels out. Not at all. And quite frankly, 5% def is rather good (the value for weave), and while combat jumping used to have an extremely low def value, nowadays it's actually quite decent: (2.5%). (Values for tankers.)

I used to have hasten + SS on gladiana, and respecced to cj/sj + tough & weave, and the change is truly amazing. There is no way I'll even consider speccing out of the fighting pool, as the game is right now.

As a further note.. I try not to loose my primary and secondaries for fighting. I rather saccrifice some, or all of the epic pool.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:19 pm 
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It's true Glad that the way DEF works isn't simple... well, I think it's pretty simple, it's just not necessarily as simple as you might think it is.

X and I had a huge forum discussion over it, which can be found here. Possibly not for the faint hearted though :wink:

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Mmm.. discussing wether it's complicated or not is rather pointless. Suffice to say that if you know how to interpret formulae, it's quite simple, but if you've an aversion thowards math, then it's probably rather complicated.

Main part of the problem is the fact that there's two variables describing how well you beat defense, and their names are sometimes mixed up inconsistently in the power descriptions.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:21 pm 
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yup.. that's the big problem really... a lack of consistency in naming and descriptions.

The actual formula is pretty simple.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:58 am 
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Ah my kind of debate. I think the guys have covered it nicely here Betty although that acc vs defence (or rather net tohit levels vs tohit debuffs) is nowhere near as straight forward as you might assume - even if was your cup of tea.

Mathematical sorts like Ebon & myself love these debates due to lots of other wrinkles in the system - authitting powers, PVP levels, use of luck inspirations - which don't fit neatly into that equation at all, and there's a lot more too.

But if maths is your cup of tea then I'm sure Ebon and I and Glad, Mess and Blast would love to entertain any quiries direct to ToHit or Not ToHit thread mentioned by Ebon earlier. Or here.

A small extra point that may be of some interest is that the starter power in the Fighting pool, Boxing, is a very nice little power directly comparable to Energy Punch from your Energy Melee set. NB it's a 1 second activating, 2.5 second recharge power that also has a 10% chance to disorientate. On a DPS basis (there's the maths again :)) it actually does more damage than Energy Punch so if you're juggling slot spaces and slots, that might help.

Have fun. :D

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


Last edited by MrX on Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:17 pm 
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well all the math in world about this game isent going to help much,as its impossible to predict weather youd get hit or not,the figures to us lamen people are probaly best used as a indication of how good your character will be at standing its ground.

there are no single powers that will make or break the defence of your character,that should be looked at as a stockpile of effects of your choosing.

basicly,look at your powersets and try and find its strength and weakness,for example megumi,rad defender,can tank pretty well even tho i have no resist powers what so ever,i however have a tohit debuff which i augment with combat jumping and stealth for defence value.

even tho tohit debuff and defence dont stack or add up it does suply a much needed second barrier.
i could have chosen touch and the epic resist power but as a defender i'm better of not being hit then being hit for less.

combat jumping isent just a good power in a defence/enduse perspective ,its also capable of giving knockback resistance and a seven and a half procent reduction to recharhe speed with realisticly minimal slotting,and after talking to ebon and gladiana i will be swapping focussed acc for cj for both combat mobility and rase recharge becouse i dont have hasten ;o

when building a tank just see weather its a green,purple or orange set and capatalise on that effect ,green being regen,purple defence and orange resist :p
with io's this is especialy so altho i feel its easyer to bump regen then anything else

anyways my "no math" explenation :p

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