THE INTREPIDS & THE INSTITUTION WEBPAGE

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 Post subject: Graphics card query (GDDR3 vs DDR2) and HD vs Blu Ray
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:34 am 
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Hi guys. As just mentioned to Mess/Ebo by email: I’ve decided I can’t wait any longer for a DX10 compatible card (and certainly don’t plan to downgrade to Vista :D ). Windows XP Pro here.

New query, to you my technical support team, before I take the plunge:

1) is a DDR3 graphic card (quite possibly the new XFX 8800 GTs: http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/lis ... sId=730995) compatible with my DDR2 based memory (my main PC is Dell Dimension 9150). I’ve looked on the net and the answer seems to be ‘yes’. E.G. "Yes. You can have any Version of GDDR memory on your card and it will be supported by the motherboard, while DDR memory needs exclusive motherboard support."

2) Are there any downsides to a GDDR3/DDR2 combo like this?

3) I’ve checked but still can’t tell for sure if the XFX 8800 GTs can handle HD DVD and Blu-Ray movie playback at full resolution? I’m still toying with buying a either a HD DVD ROM internal player or a Blu-Ray internal player (for this machine) rather than getting a new 1080 HD TV and separate Blu-Ray player (or Xbox 360/PS3). My brother has the latter and it really looks superb but I simply don’t want a PS3 and to have to start buying/playing PS3 games (despite how great they look). Upgrading my graphics card and making use of my widescreen DVI monitor and 5.1 sound system seems a much better idea, at least short term. Any reasons you guys wouldn’t do this?

4) Any other obvious problems in this area? For example, many forum posts have mentioned the extraordinary length of many of the new GTs cards (22cm in the case of the XFX). I’ve checked and have room but are there any other potential bloomers within this lot?

Any help will be much appreciated. Obviously this is an urgent enquiry now as I want to order and get it delivered for tomorrow! :lol:

Oh. And Happy Technical New Year guys!

Many many thanks


X

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


Last edited by MrX on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:47 am 
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OK... quick responses then...

No, no problems I'm aware of having a mix of GDDR3 on the graphics card and DDR2 on the mainboard.... those two RAM sections are essentially independent of each other. So no to the downsides either. The worst that could possibly happen is that your graphics card isn't the bottleneck of your system.

I think it wouldn't have any problems playing back Blu-Ray or HD-DVD content at full res (well, at least at 1080p res... I think the HiDef standards actually run upto 1900+ lines). As somebody who has recently given in to the urge and aquired a PS3 I can somewhat sympathise with your position... it's eating into my PC gaming time :wink: I guess for me the thing was that using my computer as my main movie viewing setup isn't so comfy... I like lounging on the big sofa. But that's a call for you to make.... there is little technical reason not to use the PC and monitor setup.

You've already looked into card length (which is a major thing to bear in mind with the new Geforce 8xxx series cards.). The other thing to be aware of is additional power connections (I think the 8800GTS needs just 1 PCI-E auxiliary connection... the GTX needs 2!) and powerdraw in general. Again, the GTS is a winner there as it's the result of shifting to a 65nm process iirc, which reduces it's powerdraw and heat output. Just make sure your powersupply has the juice to run your setup.

Hope that helps.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:50 am 
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Many thanks Ebo. On this point mate:
Ebo wrote:
Just make sure your powersupply has the juice to run your setup.

How/where would I check that? Is that a common problem?

I'll pay your usual account mate. :wink:

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:00 pm 
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First point of contact is to see what recommendations, if any, are made re powersupply for that card... a quick browse of the web suggests the 8800GTS draws around 170W idle, rising to 250 under load. That doesn't necesarily help you hugely, but it gives you some reference point.

Based on those numbers... a typical 100W+ for CPU and allowing for case fans, HDD etc I'd say you probably want at least a 600W, good quality powersupply to be able to run the system happy and stable with no risks of power issues.

But that's an off the cuff number. You'll need to find out what powersupply you have in your box now to work out if it will do the job.. and that one's a case of taking a look at model numbers and tracking it down I'm afraid.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:09 pm 
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Many thanks Ebo. This part here reminds me of something:

Ebo wrote:
Based on those numbers... a typical 100W+ for CPU and allowing for case fans, HDD etc I'd say you probably want at least a 600W, good quality powersupply to be able to run the system happy and stable with no risks of power issues.
That my 2nd PC is in for repairs right now. They can't find anything wrong! I couldn't spot what the problem was (it kept black-screening before and after I replaced the graphics card). But both PCs, printer, sound system and several smaller gadgets (external back-up drive etc) all run off three extension lead blocks coming from one central standard home/studio plug. Could this be a power problem? Not being the 'electrical' type (new elec toon springs to mind: Power Man). I'm digressing. Do you have a rough rule of thumb for this Ebo.

PS I might have to start paying you!

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:30 pm 
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Hmm... if you're running everything off a single wall socket you *might* run into trouble..... but to be fair as long as your multi-adapters are appropriately fused then you should be good. If you were drawing way too much from the mains you'd trip a circuit breaker somewhere (or blow a main fuse). I personally try to stick to only running one multi type extension block per wall socket... but that's not for any sound, rational reason.

As for the PC that was blackscreening randomly... obvious causes of that are power supply problems or overheating issues. It could be 'dirty' power caused by seriously fluctuating power.... you could try replacing your extension blocks with surge protected ones, if you don't already have those. It *can* help smooth out spikes.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Cheers bud. I'll eat, sleep and play easier now. Have got surge protector blocks too but might rearrange them a little and run some direct from the mains anyway. Cheers mate.

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:38 pm 
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Yes you should allways consider power when bying your new GFX card


MESS


*runs off to cheack his as he stupidly didnt cheack*

_________________
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Champions Global @MESS
MESS (20), Ink Blot(19), Toxic(17), Lady Domino(9), TRASH(10), Alpha(11), Dreadnought(19), Skree(22), Intrepid(9), Scourge(9),
Angus(1), Mr Meccano(9), Hard Target(5), Big Zero(18), Anubis(9), Dummy(1)

CoH Globals: @MESS or @TRASH
Heroes
MESS (50) Tank

Villians
Tainted Mess (50) Brute, TRASH (50) Brute, Magmite (50) Brute, Smelt Furnace (50) Brute

The rest of my Alts

Twitter (don't expect me to update it)

Image

Catz wrote:
/em praise
You are God like!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:57 pm 
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By the way Ebo, I can't let this little comment go without further scrutiny...
Ebo wrote:
As somebody who has recently given in to the urge and aquired a PS3

How/why did you settle on the PS3?

I've never played an Xbox 360 for more than a few minutes but I have played the PS3 (and it looks great) but isn't the argument that Xbox360 games still look better than PS3 games? Or did you deceide that PS3 games are better and that there are more better games? Or did you want the Blu-Ray movie option?

I've been trying to way up both (all options) which is why I'm tending towards keeping it in/on my PC - which sits a nice comfy studio/office anyway, etc. Teh choice between Blu-Ray and HD-TV is a harder one. I love the idea and superior technology of Blu-Ray but there is a heck of lot more studios/titles behind HD-TV so I'm probably leaning that way too.

So I'm curious. How did you weigh in behind PS3's?

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:44 pm 
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It was a number of factors...

one of which is that I don't really think that Xbox360 games look better than PS3 games.... and when you factor in that the PS3 is a harder platform to develop for (Cell processor) and that the 360 is more mature (about 12 months further through its life cycle) then I think the PS3 has more headroom... ie I think give it a year and PS3 games will be better than 360 games are by a significant margin.

As for the HiDef format thing.... well, I do like that the PS3 gives me a Blu-Ray player. But I'm also getting a standalone Toshiba HD-DVD player, so I'm covered regardless. I actually have a feeling Blu-Ray is going to win the format war due to a massively higher installed base of players (via the PS3). Blu-Ray is already taking about 70% of Hi-Def disc sales in the US (although Hi-Def sales are still just a tiny fraction of standard DVD sales). It's a bit if a shame if Blu-Ray wins. On many fronts it's superior tech, as you say... but if for nothing else I like that they dropped regional coding from the HD-DVD standard. True, many BD movies on the market so far haven't made use of regional coding, but the option is still there for the studios.

So... really I bought the PS3 as a gaming console with a future to it... and I'm buying HD-DVD playback hardware... and filling in the gap with the PS3 as a BD player too. And I'm going with the dual format option, as there is stuff I want that is exclusive to both formats (if that makes sense.. ie Heroes is HD-DVD only as far as I can find, Spidey moves are BD only as an example). It's true that most content is actually available on both formats... especially if you shop around internationally, but given Toshiba has seriously cut HD-DVD player prices it seemed a good time to get into the game.

Putting it on my computer wasn't really an option.. as my puter isn't in a nice comfy office/studio :wink:

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:30 pm 
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K mate. makes sense - thanks dude.

I guess I was thinking about the format war thing too in the sense that I already have many favourite movies on video and dvd and now on Blu-Ray too (I bought the Spiderman trilogy as part of an HMV 3 for 2 promotion).

It would just seem completely crazy to have buy all my fav and new fav movies on either format again - so I'm still not sure if I'll buy a HD-DVD internal or Blu-Ray internal drive or neither for the meantime. At least they're both still less than the stand-alone players. :?

Then again some folks seem to think that digital download/streaming will replace both distribution formats anyway and as time goes by maybe that's the conclusion everyone will come too anyway! Why buy the stupid things when you can just about download/stream anything you want anyway? Darn! I'm coing to a new conclusion on the movie format! :shock:

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Just curios ebon did you get the 40gig PS3 or the 60 as i've been considering one my self but would prefer the 60 for the backword compatibility but they seem to be like hen's teeth round here.

As to blueray Vs HD-DVD with combo units begining to surface granted there in the region of 700 quid (which you could have a PS3 and Xbox with HD drive for) but with all new tech it'll begin to fall in price to lvl where its afordable to joe public till then ill just bye my nice cheep DVDs :D

_________________
Image
Champions Global @MESS
MESS (20), Ink Blot(19), Toxic(17), Lady Domino(9), TRASH(10), Alpha(11), Dreadnought(19), Skree(22), Intrepid(9), Scourge(9),
Angus(1), Mr Meccano(9), Hard Target(5), Big Zero(18), Anubis(9), Dummy(1)

CoH Globals: @MESS or @TRASH
Heroes
MESS (50) Tank

Villians
Tainted Mess (50) Brute, TRASH (50) Brute, Magmite (50) Brute, Smelt Furnace (50) Brute

The rest of my Alts

Twitter (don't expect me to update it)

Image

Catz wrote:
/em praise
You are God like!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:58 am 
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I got the 40GB model Mess. I don't have a back library of PS2 games to worry about, and there seems to be no real risk nowadays of missing out on a cool new game being released on PS2 not 3. It is a minor shame it's not backwards compatible, but it wasn't a deal-breaker for me. The 60GB models are discontinued... which is why you can't find them. They are replaced (manufacturing wise) with an 80GB (otherwise identical to the old 60GB), but I don't think they have really started hitting the supply chain yet.


I know what you mean about download and streaming X... but I think that's a wee way off yet. Without more fibre in our national telecomms infrastructure I think having people move to downloading on mass isn't really going to work well.

As for buying all my fav movies again... I'll be holding off on that for a while. Upscaling actually seems to give decent results from standard DVDs :D

What I need to decide still is if I think it's worth my bothing to make a concerted effort to back a particular format where I have a choice buying new discs. As I said earlier, I have a feeling Blu-Ray might pip it, but it's by no means decided.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:27 am 
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Hi Ebo/MEss. Just attempting to install the newly delivered card now. I've just checked the wattage of my CPU (now that I know what this is :)) and it seems to say that it's 375watts MAX output.

I now realise that this is exactly what you meant by:

"Based on those numbers... a typical 100W+ for CPU and allowing for case fans, HDD etc I'd say you probably want at least a 600W, good quality powersupply to be able to run the system happy and stable with no risks of power issues."

Well I presume that's what you meant?

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:02 am 
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Hmmm. I seem to have a really bizzare problem. Graphics card is wokring at the switch-on stage - but windows isn't letting me input my password. I told you it was bizzare.

I've triedd two different keyboards (this is spare PC I'm using to type this) and all the USB ports. The keyboard works fine in Safe Mode but only until the password prompt appears (even in safe mode) then it just ignores whatever I do on teh keyboard (inc toggling caps lock, tab, etc.

EDIT: DOUBLE BIZZARE: It's just starting working again. The mystery deepens. Surely that can't be a power issue? Could it?!?!?

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:58 am 
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it could be... it does sound remarkably odd....

is it a USB keyboard?

It's possible that there isn't anough juice to make sure the keyboard is getting a stable supply..... of course, it could be something else entirely.

But I'd say you'll need to upgrade from 350W pretty sharpish. I've actually got a spare 500W powersupply kicking around from my last upgrade. I can't recall now how far you live from Cambs now, but it's yours for the taking if you want to/can come get it.

_________________
@Ebon Hawk-EU or @Zenobia Blade

Official Chiefette Translator
----------------------------------
Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:15 pm 
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Hmmm that is weird like ebon I'm gonna blame the PSU 350w is probably on the low side

Easiest way to check would be to put the old GFX card back in and see if that solves the problem (assuming you've not did that already)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Hi guys. Thanks again for the help/feedback. I'm having a HD weekend now! The keyboard came back (for no apparent reason) and the new card (the XFX GTs 8800) is installed and wroking a treat. When I say a treat I mean a TREAT. Flippin excellent. I can finally play Crysis and that cards runs flawlessly with full HIGH settings at 1280x1024 pixels. Boy is that a fantastic game. Love it all. I've now been able to look at Bioshock and Unreal Tournament 3. Whereas Bioshock looks amazing Unreal doesn't so much - which is weird considering it's the same graphics engine.

Power supply/graphics seem to have help up fine so far. No sign of anything bad happening at least.

Next post to follow covers HD DVD v Blu Ray. Just found out something very interesting ...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:18 pm 
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... and the something very interesting is that ...

A brand new post or two on Amazon (I;m going to check elsewhere) has stated that:

"Warner has annouced that they will support blu-ray exclusively. This means from Spring, only Universal and Paramount will release films on HD DVD (but they are rumored to go blu-ray aswell very soon), so its very likey HDDVD will be discontiued, by the end of 2008."

Here's the full post:

While this is a great player --- DO NOT BUY IT, 5 Jan 2008
By A. Jeffery "The world is blu" (UK) - See all my reviews

I've used this player in the past and it offers a great buy for those looking into HD-DVD.

However just a friendly warning - DO NOT BUY THIS PRODUCT (or any other HDDVD player for that matter)

Warner has annouced that they will support blu-ray exclusively. This means from Spring, only Universal and Paramount will release films on HD DVD (but they are rumored to go blu-ray aswell very soon), so its very likey HDDVD will be discontiued, by the end of 2008. I was going to order this product until i found out about this.

Get a PS3 or blu-ray player if you want HD Films as that is looking like to be the winner on this format war, just like VHS beat Betamax.

HDDVD owners - sell up now while you can get some money for it.


I'm going to see if that's true is might change all my plans. I was just about to order a new Toshiba EP30 HD DVD player and a newer, larger Dell monitor (the 27" Dell UltraSharp 2707WFP) which I can use either in the studio as my main monitor and just as easily move it to the lounge for the sofa option.

Not being a Wires Guy I've been checking all the details as carefully as I can for compatibility. So far as I can tell all the Toshiba HD DVD players output hi-resolution component video (as well HDMI and various other outputs) and the Dell 2707WFP has the same component video inputs (but not HDMI). That seems fine to me - as I only want the hi-def video inputs anyway and will output the sound separately via the 5.1 Digital Audio Output connection. I was thinking about buying the 24" 2407WFP but this doesn't support component video inputs.

My plans will now have to change though, if the above story is true, and look into buying a Blu-Ray player instead - but am I right in my understanding that I will be able to deliver 1080p HD pictures via the component cables?

Both the 2407WFP and the 2707WFP claim to support 1080p picture and so for either £399+VAT (or £499+VAT for the 27" version) I get a brand new 1920x1200 pixel studio monitor and a HD TV screen. My new XFX card supports output up to 2560 x 1600 Pixels for future use but you need to buy a 30"+ monitor capable of displaying that kind of resolution - and the Dell 3007WFP doesn't have such good reviews and is probably way too big for what I need in the studio (and to lug up and down the stairs). :D

Guys: can you spot any flaws in this plan - on the component output/input bit especially - if you understand all this stuff properly? I'm just trying to understand everything I've read.

Here's some of the reference links I've found handy:

Trustedreviews.com (for monitors, CPUs, DVD players etc):
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/ ... Display/p3

Toshiba EP30 spec and reviews:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toshiba-HD-EP30 ... 172&sr=1-4

Dell monitor/offers:
http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/dept.asp?dept% ... ell+Offers

Hope that's interesting anyway but would love to know more about component video - if you guys do - or any good alternatives for monitors and now Blu-Ray players too. :lol:

_________________
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Hey X,

Sorry, I couldn't contribute on the graph card issue because since I started using laptops instead of desktops, I stopped following news about graphic cards.

On the other hand, my knowledge on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD is limited. But, I follow the news about the topic as I also wish to improve the home-theatre at home :).

I've heard about 2 issues:

1) Combo players, playing both Blu-Ray & HD-DVD, will be released soon. I think Samsung just released a combo player recently.

2) Once Blu-Ray and HD-DVD movies are on the market, Sony & Toshiba are expected to drop player prices dramatically to win the format competition. That's why I intend to wait a little bit...

I hope it helps...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:42 pm 
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Thanks Blast. I've seen some of those combo players. They're a fairly good idea except my main concern would be buying too many discs of the 'wrong' format - rather than just getting the wrong player. Reading through all the spec details, until I read the announcement about Warner, I was fairly sure that HD-DVD was the better option (cheaper for the market and more flexible than Blu-Ray) but now it looks like I think Blu-Ray will be - so this explains the incredibly low price of the HD-DVD systems. Vendors may already be pricing them, since Friday (Jan 4th) to clear stock.

Meantime, the cheapest stand-alone Blu-Ray player I've seen is the Sony BDPS300 for around £185+VAT but it has lots of poor reviews (very slow functionality and poor native DVD playback). There's a bunch of other Blu Ray machines at up to £300 but none of these machines feature the latest specs and future proofing (or even 1080p/24 playback) - so these machines are currently a lot more than the price-crashing HD-DVD systems.

I have just found this new reasonably-priced machine from Samsung though, the Samsung-BD-P1400:

It has full p24 playback (otherwise known as True HD as it carries the movie in 24 frames per second playback instead of the speeded-up 25 frames of the older formats) and has an Ethernet port built in and supports HDMI 1.3 (which most sub £300 system's don't. For about £270+VAT this machine actually looks pretty good except the unit seems to have many playback issues and in common with many other Blu Ray players (including the PS3 itself) they have no memory so any crashed movies have to be restarted from the beginning.

The more I read about Blu Ray the more technical glitches I find. If Warner had announced to support HD-DVD exclusively on Friday past (instead of Blu Ray) I would have already sent off my order for HD-DVD by now.

The biggest glitch I've found with Blu Ray players so far is also lack of component 1080p/24 support and all the machines I've reviewed so far only offer p24 through HDMI 1.3 - so I'll need to find a 1080p/24 HDMI 1.3 based PC monitor too and I haven't seen any of those either.

Summary: I'm not sure I can do what I wanted with a Blu Ray player/monitor and the costs look to be heading to £1,000+ which is a little more than I wanted in order to just play some kind of HD movie on a new PC monitor. And it's still not absolutely certain that Blu Ray will win the format war, with or without Warner ... so I'm still looking at other options ...

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Last edited by MrX on Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:19 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:47 am 
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Ummmm. Sorry to write so much about this but I'm going to find the best deal/idea possible even it's going to kill me - which MrsX will do whenI finally get to bed!

But for the timebeing and despite everything else written above, I'm finally leaning (again) towards an internal Blu Ray player and the following drive is available in the UK for just £100:

Here's the review:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/storage/r ... C-202BK/p1

The main caveat here is that you need a HDCP compliant graphics card and playback (which I have in my new XFX 8800 GTs card).

The non-OEM version, the BDC-S02, also includes the software playback (PowerDVD) and is only £30 more and as far as I can tell this will give me full 1080p playback on my existing monitor too and the quality is supposed to be absolutely fantastic - with no component/HDMI worries either.

I can't wait now. :shock:

Here's a link to the Pioneer-BDC-202BK drive with some extra tech details (which are quite hard to find still):

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/131748

Although I've found lots selling the retail version of this drive (which includes the PowerDVD playback software) for £100-£110 now. You can also buy AnyDVD software which will enable you to play any-region Blu Ray DVDs - which might also be a factor for some folks (nb look at US Blu Ray prices!) :D

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:03 pm 
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Just to wrap and round up this thread fully I think I've made a final decision on the display monitor too now:

The FP241W from BenQ:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/ ... Monitor/p2

It has all the connections (including an HDCP compliant HDMI port) and is supposed to have a great picture quality for studio work, movies and gaming (technically: 1000:1 contrast ratio, 1,920 x 1,200 pixels, 8-bit True Colour display (16.7m colours) and 500 cd/m2 brightness).

It's got a bit of a naff bevel/surround colour but I can live with that. Being HDMI based as well as DVI means that I can as easily use this either in the studio or anywhere else in the house too and is fairly future-proof being able to display better-than 1080p/24 resolution pictures, which is the highest HD resolution currently available.

For £365+VAT that's a pretty good deal too. Best price I've seen is from oyyy.co.uk:

http://www.oyyy.co.uk/product.php?xProd ... QwodKhvUWA

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:10 pm 
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hehe X.... you would find that comment just 5 days after I took delivery of my Toshiba EP30 :wink:

Oh well, such is life. With a PS3 on hand as well at least I'm covered regardless.... guess I just need to be careful about buying movies on HD DVD too much.

I've had a sneaking suspicion for a while that BD would win, based on installed base of players thanks to the PS3 and higher disc sales (about 70% of the HD market). But I still don't think it's a done deal... although if it's true that studios are abandoning HD-DVD then it's pretty much over. Of course... only about 3 weeks ago Paramount abandoned BD to be HD-DVD exclusive (from having supported both formats).... so this is maybe just a return salvo.

I do find it telling though that all the highstreet shops (that I've checked anyway here in Cambridge) have a lot more shelfspace for BD than they do for HD-DVD.

Not sure I have much productive to add on the 1080p/24 over component though... beyond that apparently PAL discs aren't best played in 1080p/24 anyway... something to do with the native framerate *shrug*. I'm using HDMI for my kit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:24 pm 
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Cheers Ebo. On this...
Ebo wrote:
PAL discs aren't best played in 1080p/24 anyway... something to do with the native framerate *shrug*.
... I don't know much more but movie frame rates on PAL and NTSC are speeded up to 25 frames per second for broadcast over terrestial TV networks and to play on conventional video/DVD kit. Original celluloid film is always shot at 24 frames per second. And so the Full HD/True HD for movies is the movement to display movies in their original format. I'm not sure but I suppose movies will increasingly be supplied in True (or Full HD) format whereas TV series (shot with digital cameras) will presumably be supplied in ordinary 1080 (i or p). Equally, I'm still guessing, most 1080p/24 players will have the option to toggle display mode to suit.

I have no idea what (or how) that Blu Ray PowerDVD drive will handle this though. I couldn't find any more tech details on that at all. I guess I'll have to check that now too! :D

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 Post subject: PowerDVD details:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:31 pm 
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http://www.cyberlink.com/multi/products/main_1_ENU.html

Seems pretty good!

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:41 am 
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It seems the question of Blue Ray or HDDVD has been aswered and the winner is Blue Ray (so glad i went for the PS3 and held of on the 360)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23204819/wid/11915829?GT1=10939

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:58 am 
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Haha Mess. Indeed.

By the way, I've been running my Blu Ray internal set up at 1080p resolution on my BenQ FP241W for quite a while now. Works great but now that the camp has fallen fairly and squarly inline with Blu Ray I'm going to buy a Blu Ray player and new Full HD TV as soon as they actually bring out a Full HD telly in the 32-40" range. The picture definition on my 24" BenQ is fantastic but you do get an element of frame rate stutter (on my PC at least) on the fast moving scenes and the blacks and nowhere near as black as you get on TV sets. But looking at all the current TV sets around it's still all old technology. All the 32" sets on the market and lots of the higher resolution TVs being sold as "HD Ready" are no such thing. Many of the telly's also only claim to "be able to play" 1080p whereas they are not actually able to play the picture at that resolution, they are only able to pull the movie off the disc! The actual display resolution is only 700odd pixels.

If I were doing this again in the future I would upgrade to a 27" or a 30" monitor capable of displaying 2560 x 1600 pixels - which none of the 24" or 27" versions I've seen can do. 1080p movies are great on 1920x1200 monitors but at that size you actually need the extra pixels for your day to day work. The Dell 3008WFP 30" is the only sensibly-priced monitor I've seen so far that can display 2560 x 1600 pixels but reviews of picture quality (for movie playback) aren't that good.

I think the next generation of 27"-30" and beyond monitors are going to be great - and you can use them anywhere around the house too as a telly - as long as they have the HDMI interface (which my BenQ does and the Dell 3008WFP does too.

I hope that helps (someone, somewhere)! :lol:

_________________
[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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