THE INTREPIDS & THE INSTITUTION WEBPAGE

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 Post subject: Heatblast's DoT and Fear question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:41 pm 
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I'm now over level 40 with my Invul/Fiery tanker, Heatblast, and as I play I come up with different attack styles.

Main ideas are as follows:

1) Heatblast is purely a PvE team toon.

2) All defence and resistance powers of the primary pool are taken, control is my priority here, damage dealing belongs to the team. And the IO build will be designed to maximise def/resist values.

3) Invulnerability primary and Fire secondary work great together because the more mobs around me the more defence I gain. And with 3 decent AoE fire attacks (Combustion, Breath of Fire and Fire Sword Circle) I usually kill mobs at the same time, which is safer than killing one by one...

4) I can get my 4th AoE damage attack from the epic pool, however, they're all 4th tier powers and I don't wanna waste power slots with Hold, Immobilise & Range powers, the team will deal with those.

5) I intend to try Presence pool. First of all I'll get my second Taunt power to boost herd control. But on the other hand, Invoke Panic (AoE Fear) in that pool looks quite interesting. Now's the question:

As you already know, an enemy under fear influence has a chance to react when attacked. That's understandable with regular attacks but how about Fire DoT? Will they have only one chance to respond when I use an AoE DoT attack or will they respond everytime my attack ticks?

If second possiblity is correct, then there's no point in having Invoke Panic because they'll always be free to attack me. If so, I'd scrap the idea and try other powers instead.

Feedback please?

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The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:57 pm 
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I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get a free moment from each DoT tick.

If you want to I'm happy to arrange some kind of testing session on the... you guessed it... test server to look at this :D

Oh... and worry not. I'll still be active on the forums, even if not so much in game. I'm not leaving, I'm taking a break from playing CoX for a bit.

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Intrepids
LOx lvl27 Tanker
Synaptic Pulse lvl25 Defender

Legends
Ebon Hawk (Claws/Regen Scrapper)
Girl Fusion (Empathy/Rad Blast Defender)
Zenobia Blade (Broadsword/Shield/Blaze Scrapper)
Pyrokyne (Fire/Kin/Mu Corruptor)
Blaize of Glory (Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster)
Silver Falcon (Tri-form Peacebringer)
Second Sun (Fire/Rad Controller)

Institution
Bitter Blizzard lvl 50 Corruptor
Taze lvl 17 Brute


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 Post subject: Re: Heatblast's DoT and Fear question
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Blastor wrote:
I'm now over level 40 with my Invul/Fiery tanker, Heatblast, and as I play I come up with different attack styles.

Main ideas are as follows:

1) Heatblast is purely a PvE team toon.

2) All defence and resistance powers of the primary pool are taken, control is my priority here, damage dealing belongs to the team. And the IO build will be designed to maximise def/resist values.

3) Invulnerability primary and Fire secondary work great together because the more mobs around me the more defence I gain. And with 3 decent AoE fire attacks (Combustion, Breath of Fire and Fire Sword Circle) I usually kill mobs at the same time, which is safer than killing one by one...

4) I can get my 4th AoE damage attack from the epic pool, however, they're all 4th tier powers and I don't wanna waste power slots with Hold, Immobilise & Range powers, the team will deal with those.

5) I intend to try Presence pool. First of all I'll get my second Taunt power to boost herd control. But on the other hand, Invoke Panic (AoE Fear) in that pool looks quite interesting. Now's the question:

As you already know, an enemy under fear influence has a chance to react when attacked. That's understandable with regular attacks but how about Fire DoT? Will they have only one chance to respond when I use an AoE DoT attack or will they respond everytime my attack ticks?

If second possiblity is correct, then there's no point in having Invoke Panic because they'll always be free to attack me. If so, I'd scrap the idea and try other powers instead.

Feedback please?


first of Dot as far as i can tell works as follows with fear

fear target - hit target with Dot attake - target gets to react - target then stands there feared for some time takeing damage then gets another chance.

So the don't get a chance every tick but they do seem to get a chance every so often its possible its worked out on some kind of random chance percentage type things as I've had some thing never attake me and other s maybe carry out 1 or 2 attakes then stand there looking scared till they die :D

one thing that worrys me tho blast is this


Quote:
2) All defence and resistance powers of the primary pool are taken, control is my priority here, damage dealing belongs to the team. And the IO build will be designed to maximise def/resist values.


You say that control is your priority and that damage dealing belongs to the team but as you have fire as a secondery your form of control is damage the quicker they fall the lower the threat they represent to the team (not sure how it stands for just a fire secondery but a fire/fire tank can be one the most damaging members of a hero team) so i would say aim to maximise your damage more damage equils more dead and burning (burning is good as there tauanted for the duration)

Now to taunt

taunt is inherent to all tank attakes you smack some one with brawl there taunted for a few seconds (i for get the actual figure) this taunt is AOE so his sourounding mates are taunted as well now ad this effect to a AOE power and you have some ultamit agro grabing ability just think you hit 10 target with fire sword circle eatch of those targets pluss thos near those targets are tauntedand infact probably double taunted as thell have one taunt on top of another so once somthing gets within your AOE range there yours they may run of on fire but there gona come back

All in all you probably wont need the extra AOE taunt power from the presence pull as between AOE attakes,taunt aura and taunt you should be ok

I would recommend that you go look at the US tank forum and even the UK one as there are quite a few discusions on taunt

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:35 pm 
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cast fear and then attack is the focus of any dark/dark defender as me, in my experience they react to my direct attacks (dark blast, moonbeam) but never react to a gloom strike, that give dotr to them

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moonscythe lvl 50 dark miasma/dark blast defender
valkirias lvl 40 ice/ice tanker
sky fencer lvl 25 dual blades/willpower scrapper
void child lvl 21 warshade
anonimo oscuro lvl 18 illusion/kin
hammerer quake lvl 15 tanker hammer/willpower
dark shana lvl 5 blaster arc/ele

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moon eclipse lvl 39 ninja/super reflex stalker
07 lvl 33 bot/bow mastermind
red shana lvl 32 thugs/dark miasma mastermind
kaiser spider lvl 27 crab spider
siberiana lvl 13 ice/ice dominator


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:18 pm 
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Thanks for the feed back guys...

You have some good points there Mess, and I consider them carefully, since they're coming from a veteran tanker.

But my starting point is that I have all defence and resistance powers taken, so I've done my part there. As for control, apart from Gauntlet inherent power, I have Taunt aura, Invincibility, which makes mobs, even level1s, attack me when I pass by.

Maybe I wasn't clear earlier but when I said Mob Control I meant Herding large & scattered mobs. Because no matter how careful you are, someone in the team manages to aggro a separate group, either unintentionally or in a noobie way :), while you're busy on the other side. So another ranged AoE Taunt power might be useful.

And since I get my second Taunt power from Presence pool, Invoke Panic in the same pool looked interesting, which I intend to try before finalising my build.

As for damage, I only intend to focus on 3 AoE powers, again as a matter of keeping enemies around me, as you also stated. My damage won't be enough to kill all aggroed, they're just going to assist the overall damage output of the team.

I don't intend to taunt all, kill all and move onto the next mob just like pre-ED fire tankers, when we used to stand and watch them gathering and killing 40-50 at the same time...

_________________
@blastor-eu

The Intrepids:
Blastor-Level 50 Energy/Fire/Electrical Blaster, Dr. Blast-Level 50 Robotics/Force Field/Mace Mastermind, Holy Blast-Level 50 Peacebringer, Blasting Spines-Level 50 Spines/Regeneration/Body Scrapper, Heatblast-Level 50 Invulnerability/Fiery/Pyre Tanker, Fire Blast-Level 50 Fire/Kinetics/Leviathan Corruptor, Thunder Steel-Level 50 Ninja/Ninjitsu/Mu Stalker, Israfel the Fallen-Level 50 Sonic/Thermal/Dark Corruptor, Blastor Ascended-Level 50 Psychic/Energy/Force Blaster, Fright-Level 50 Kinetic/Dark Armour/Energy Brute, Calibro-Level 50 Dual Pistols/Radiation/Power Corruptor, Nlidia-Level 50 Gravity/Storm/Ice Controller.

The Institution:
Admiral Blast-Level 50 Energy/Energy/Mace Brute, Darkest Blast-Level 50 Mind/Psionic/Leviathan Dominator, Arbiter Blast-Level 50 Crab/Mace Arachnos Soldier, Unmerciful Steel-Level 50 Dual Blades/Willpower/Soul Brute, Mind Blaster-Level 50 Dark Miasma/Psychic/Psychic Defender, Blastor Reborn-Level 50 Ice/Electric/Force Blaster, Superiora-Level 50 Invulnerability/Super Strength/Energy Tanker, Gaia Queen-Level 50 Plant/Empathy/Stone Controller, Shadow Seer-Level 50 Fortunata/Soul Arachnos Widow, Zamana-Level 50 Time/Beam Rifle Defender, Wild Raven-Level 50 Will Power/Street Justice/Energy Tanker, Nlador-Level 50 Titan/Fiery Brute.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:36 am 
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Hi blast. Gratz on 40 mate. I think most people have said it all except speaking from expereince with Invoke Panic I think it won't help you mate. Here's why:

1. Mobs will, I'm 95% sure, react for every tick of any of your DoT auras.
2. One of the reactions it can invoke is, of course, to run away! Even if doesn't happen every time and I'm not sure how often it officially triggers but I would say somewhere in the region 1 out of every 3-5 hits will result in the buggers running off. And when they start they can really run quite a long way!
3. Invoke Panic is also incredibly end burning. Something like 22-25% of your end out the window. That really tells when you wind it up with Hasten/Recharge IOs.
4. Of course, as you already know, it takes a long time to come round again (60 seconds) just to provide a temporary hold (10 seconds) which may result in the whole mob running off.

Actually on the last point I've noticed that powers like Invoke Panic (and perhaps all AoE powers) either all hit the mod, all miss the mob or all invoke whatever secondary effect was built into the power. So unless NC have changed this IP is more likely to make the whole run off at the same time when it does eventually cause a 'run away' effect.

A final thought is about those epic powers. I don't have a high-level tank so can't speak from experience but one power I absolutely love is Ice Storm. I completely agree with what you said about the uneccessary single target control powers but if you could live with Chilblain/Block of Ice (whic would both be great at slowing powerful bosses/AVs down then Ice Storm is terrific. With no need to waste slots on accuracy it will really slow any taunted mobs, deliver great extra damage over a fair duration (15 seconds) and you can drop the attack down every 45-60 seconds or less. You can then 3 slot it for extra damage or extra slowing. It might also go with the 'heat' theme. Heat control etc.

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:10 am 
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From my experiences with ice storm though X is that is is fairly end heavy and doesnt is also create a running away effect as rain of fire does?

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Newton: 50: Gravity/Radiation/Psionic
Peace: 50: Mind/Empathy/Primal Forces
Shriek: 50: Gravity/Sonic/Psionic
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:20 am 
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Good point. They only try and run out of the area of affect though - which is ... oops it's 40ft. You're right that might put the kyboshers on that idea. Although if you used a bit more slow than damage they wouldn't get far very fast but on balance the Queen of Control strikes again: Ice Storm might not be such a good idea! :oops:

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[b]MrX Heroes: MrX Lvl 50 warshade. | MIND0R Lvl 50 mind/emp troll | The-Messenger Lvl 50 BS/regen scrap | Covert Lvl 42 kin/pys def | .Relic Lvl 42 illu/emp troll | Havoc Lvl 42 kin/elec def | The-Elemental Lvl 39 storm/dark def | Unsung Lvl 38 dark/regen scrap | WRENCH Lvl 34 shield/wrench tank | The Watcher Lvl 15 earth/rad troller | Villains: FR0STBITE Lvl 50 ice/kin corr | Dark-X Lvl 47 dark/stone brute | N'Ice Lvl 42 ice/rad corr | Vortex Lvl 42 robotics/storm MM | ShadowBaby Lvl 41 claws/regen stalk | The Cloak Lvl 41 energy/energy stalk | Thang Lvl 39 robotics/FF MM | IonFist Lvl 34 energy/ninjitsu stalk | The Somnabulist Lvl 33 dark/nec MM | Mr Kripplin Lvl 32 rad/rad corr | M0RBIUS Lvl 20 necro/poison MM | The Infrigidator Lvl 20 ice/cold corr


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