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 Post subject: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:52 am 
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Hi all,

To say it first, "Wolverine" is not a bad film.
Nor is it good.
It is just very very average.

It is just that with a character like Marvel's most popular Spandex-bearer that is actually nothing to boast about!
Wolvies origin story could have been spectacular, all the ingredients were there - including an apparently very good comic book to draw ideas from.

But then the "good people" of the Evil Empire (read Fox) saw the returns on "The Dark Knight" and decided to give Wolvie the Wayne-treatment. As a result, he is the reluctant (and slightly whiny) hero for most of the film lacking almost all his trademark wits and abrasiveness. He is Bruce Wayne playing Logan.

Plus the decision to keep the violence "clean" to get the PG rating did nothing to uphold the realism - I did not want body-parts flying across the screen, but seeing the claws coming out of the opponent's body freshly polished destroys even the last bit of a feeling of realism.

The film concentrates on a sappy and very predictable love story which leads to some of the most painful moments of the film - they even have a "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!-Moment". :(
From start to finish no tired old cliché is left unused (see the blacked out section below ...), the story consists of thin strands holding the plot-holes together and every possible good idea for a plot twist is simply ignored.

The one and only redeeming quality about the film is that the action - whenever it is allowed to happen - is truly amazing. I loved the way they did the fights, they are well choreographed and make good use of the different character's superpowers. My favourite has to be the fight between Wolverine and Bub ... ah Blob! :)

A very generous 5 out of 10! (Gave it a 6 first but had to score down after reading the list of shortcomings again.)
Zoser


Here is the promised list of clichés (just mark to read):

- Betraying older brother - CHECK!
- Betraying older brother feeling betrayed himself - CHECK!
- Betraying boss claiming betraying brother betrayed him - CHECK!
- Romantic life in the wilderness of Canada "I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK ..." - CHECK!
- Betraying but still very loyal girlfriend - CHECK!
- Cool black dude who gets killed off too soon and doesn't serve any real purpose - CHECK!
- Nice old couple (think the Kents) helping Wolvie and getting killed for it - CHECK!

The list goes on ...

Oh, and then there is the unspeakable scene where Victor puts Wolverine's girlfriend into a coma and splashes some blood over her ... someone should have told the genius brains at Fox that stuff like this ain't working on someone with super-senses! That is simply unbearably bad and lazy scriptwriting!

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 4:58 pm 
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i completely agree Z, this film is nowhere near as cool as the 1st xmen film where wolverine kicked ass.

i dont like the way they made wolvie and sabretooth brothers, i also dont like the way they changed the line up of weapon x to include the blob who i thought was a bad guy??

and finally i dont like what they did to the potentially awesome character deadpool.

1/10 from me.

If you guys want to see an awesome wolverine film just watch the 1st and 2nd movies...

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:39 pm 
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I find it intresting almost every one that reviwes the film mates coment on the Oragins comic and how its very good yet the films poor the thing is there very similar the film is a clip note version of the comic basically where the've conprest and removed some of the extened stort to have the film fit in with the allready established X-men time line.

Take the girl freind in the film agent planted to keep a eye on him falls for him betrays him but still loves him

in the comic that rolls played by 3 (could be more) female charichters but teh basic roles the same specificaly during wolvies time at dept H (comic book version of strikers operation) a love intrest is dangled in from of him she's a control method keeping him in line but when they need "ill gut you because i can" wolverine cyber kills her

What sucked about the film was

Bad righting the character were dire
To many characters there was no need for half the weapon X team to be featured in the way that they were why start to give them a character and then don't full flesh it out
dead pool what the hell did they do to him there's a character with sequel all over him and the butcher it
Sabertooth how did he go from super agile kitty cat man to the monster we see in the later fims (yes i know different actor but still)
Scott flippin summers why the hell was he in there and why doesn't he know wolverine in the future film
the mutant prisoners again what the hell why was there a need to use recognisable characters

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:20 am 
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I don't care.... it has got Hugh Jackman semi naked in it [smilie=blowup.gif]


Seriously though it's a shame it doesn't appear to live up to expectations, though i will reserve judgement until i've seen it. Afterall, i liked the first Hulk.... :D

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:05 am 
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Well, I quite enjoyed it.

Possibly I benefitted from not going to a movie based on a popular comic book character with expectations of complex scriptwriting and performances :wink:

C'mon guys, the examples of good cinema produced in this genre are the exception rather than the rule. Thankfully things are generally getting better, but this was clearly a cash in film. There wasn't a compelling reason to tell this story, beyond that they could make some money doing it.

On that basis, as a 'switch of brain and enjoy pretty lights' film I had a good time watching it :D

On the subject of why Scott was in there, it's so they could give the uber Deadpool his funky eye beams. He doesn't know Wolvie in the later (earlier) films because he never saw him or spoke to him (eyes were covered).... and they will have used recognisable mutants for that prison section because, well frankly it's easier to use pre-existing characters when you have a roster as large as Marvels to pick from than it is to come up with new ones.

I don't know.. .sometimes I think you guys expect too much from your bubble-gum cinema :D

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:46 am 
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I will have to disagree here - this argument may have had a lot of weight in the times of the unspeakable Schumacher Batmen, but I'd argue today you can expect more.

In times where you have "The Dark Knight", "Batman Begins", "Watchmen", "Iron Man", "Superman's Return" and to a lesser extend even the new "Hulk", feeding spurious plots without any ingenuity to the audience is just no longer acceptable, I think.

The above films have shown that kick-ass action can be combined with at least a decent plot (more in most of them), so you no longer have to accept films based on scripts that scream at you "we didn't care to make it coherent or logical because we think you are stupid".

Also they tried to be more than just an action film - they tried to be "Dark Knight" and failed miserably mostly due to sloppy directing and an exceptionally lousy script.

Zos

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:08 am 
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Zoser wrote:
so you no longer have to accept films based on ......blah blah


....so... while we are on the subject of what makes a good movie... does Hugh appear semi naked much in the film? :-k


*day dreams*

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:11 am 
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See, I think I'm with you on the disagreeing here.

I saw nothing in Wolverine that made me think they were trying for anything resembling the Dark Knight. Now maybe I've missed some quote from the director/producer/tea boy where it was said that was what they were shooting for, but nothing about the film suggests to me they were looking for parallels.

As to your list of films which have changed the landscape for comic-book movies, I'm not sure I can agree too much there either... the batman movies and ironman certainly raised the bar hugely. Superman I liked but to me felt a little too lost in introspection and clearly failed to garner enough success to act as a successful reboot of the Superman franchise (despite some absolutely superb performances). It also suffered from some mis-casting.
Gonna have to disagree on the new Hulk too (although I note you qualified that one). It really had nothing to it, Ed Norton was wasted and Tim Roth was a uni-dimensional psychopath (again a waste of a good actor).

I'm not arguing with you that Wolverines script was poorly put together; it definitely could have used some tightening. The direction of the action sequences was excellent but otherwise nothing special, but I have to disagree on expectations, or on any similarity (or intent of that) to the Dark Knight. I'd be interested to hear where that comes from for you.

and Betty... to answer your question, posted while I typed my reply, I'm not sure he appears semi naked in much of the film, but he does doff the clothes sometimes (including a sequence of total nakedness) :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:32 am 
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Hi again,

[Here be more spoilers, so proceed with care.]

When I made my list of films, I didn't mean they had to be successful, but each of them had at least a halfway decent script - which was the point I was trying to make. :)

As for the similarities - they start with Logan's character - he is less abrasive than he would have to be and he is lacking the coolness he had in the X-Men films. The "unwilling hero" angle and the way they turned our favourite claws scrapper into an angsty and insecure "teenager" - questioning his role in life - doesn't help either.
Logan doesn't develop much at this point in his life - he is already about 2 centuries old, most of them apparently spent on the battlefields, so he is ancient and what changes him is the way his brain is turned into Swiss cheese. :)

Also there is the story - heavy on the betrayal and the tragic "death" of his girlfriend, the sickeningly sweet scenes in Canada before that and then his brother wanting him to "become the animal" - which reminds me at least strongly of what Joker wanted of Batman.


I had hoped for a more fast-paced action flick without the ballast of the heavy yet hole-riddled story.

Zos

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Ebon Hawk wrote:
and Betty... to answer your question, posted while I typed my reply, I'm not sure he appears semi naked in much of the film, but he does doff the clothes sometimes (including a sequence of total nakedness) :wink:


Hmm you are teasing me… or do you mean the bit that I saw in the trailer where he jumps up out of the watery tank thing? <- wow I am so descriptive
Well anyway…. Enough perving, time to get back to work! (and stop derailing a sensible thread..hehe)
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:19 pm 
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I can kinda see what you're saying... kinda.

Re the script thing, I'd question that the Hulk had a good script with strong story, but I'll give you that the others did.

As far as Wolverine goes (spoilers) I kinda think that a more abrasive, less angsty/wanting to be 'one of them' Wolverine character would have been less interesting as the focus of a film. For me the fact he's been trotting from battlefield to battlefield for the best part of a century and a half does not mean that his character has nowhere else to go.

People are always susceptible to change in their behaviour and their outlook on life based on their experiences... but more than that, a film where Wolvie was the same Wolvie we saw in Xmen1 would, for me, not really have worked. Part of that abrasiveness and bitterness is due to his amnesia (at least that's how I read it). There is less basis for it pre-swiss cheese brain. The whole point of this movie was how he *became* that man. Plus, as I see it, whilst Logan isn't, by any stretch of the phrase, a *nice* guy, he is one with a pretty strong moral compass who cares about doing the right thing; that to me fits with the character we saw on screen.

But perhaps we just have very different takes on it.

I'll not disagree that it wasn't the most elegant bit of film-making I've seen. The story was fairly clumsy and felt forced in same ways. They had a start point and an end point and sometimes made some very contrived choices in how to join the two up; but I still enjoyed it reasonably.


and Betty, you keep replying while I'm typing :wink:

I do kinda mean that bit, but it goes on a little longer than that. You perv! :D

EH

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:27 pm 
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I think that we are not as far apart as it seemed in the beginning - after all I said it was not bad - and 5 out of 10 would be a reasonably enjoyable film.

I am just a bit disappointed that they did not clean up the script, ditch the ballast and make it a 7 or 8 ...

As for Hulk I think you are correct up to a point - it was not the best script in the world, but still a far cry away from the Swiss cheese they used for Wolverine. :P

Zos

P.S. This one really made me laugh as did this one.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:40 pm 
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Ebon Hawk wrote:
and Betty, you keep replying while I'm typing :wink:


No, you keep replying while i'm typing :mrgreen:

Ebon Hawk wrote:
...it goes on a little longer than that
[smilie=22_yikes.gif] :oops:





O:)

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:24 pm 
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Hey dont get me wrong as films go it was good as a stand alone action film i liked it but when slotted into the begining of the X franchise it left me disapointed they could have done a lot more with all the charichters but instead chose to do what they did which was introduce a cluch of shallow charichters that developed very little over the corse of the film. As to plundering the marvel carichter catalog fair anuff but why use charichters that can be recognised easily there are plenty of Z list mutants in the marvel universe that could have been used but instead we get toad (another mutant that apears later in the series and even works with victor) and we get emma frost (why did we need her?) im also sure i spotted a young storm, Banshe (maybe) and some one that looked a lot like quick silver it just felt like they were stuffing cameos in there beacaus ethey could.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 6:55 am 
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Mess wrote:
<snip>... it just felt like they were stuffing cameos in there beacaus ethey could.


Welcome to Hollywood :D

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Legends
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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:40 pm 
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okie.. time to possibly answer the reasoning behind the group of "young" mutants.. as rumours have it (sorry cant remember where i read it) they are making another xmen film.. but it will be (as i understand it) the beginnings.. using a completely different cast from the original triolgy meaning it would be a young team of "xmen" presumably featuring some of those characters seen at the end of Wolverine..

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:23 am 
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That could actually work - and it wouldn't have this tool from X1-3 playing Cyclops ... :)

Zos

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:24 am 
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Well, apparently they are talking to Ryan Reynolds about a Deadpool movie too (supposedly one of the filmed alternate endings of Wolverine has deadpool rising from the rubble and going 'shhh' to the camera.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:38 am 
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As much as I like Ryan Reynolds (I seem to be one of very very few people who do *g*), I do not see this Deadpool as interesting enough to carry a film. Wouldn't stop the Evil Fox Empire, of course ... :)

Zos

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:03 am 
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you don't think deadpools interesting? :shock: how can you not find deadpool interesting admitedly the film failed to show him at his best think the wise cracking character Reynolds played in blade3 combined with some one who's truly unlikable and then add in the insanity of the joker. Plus it has the hole tragic love angle as well if they follow the comics any way*.




*Deadpool (before he's deadpool and was just wade wilson weapon X failure and doomed to die from cancer) and Death (yes the grim reaper) fall in love but for deadpool to truly be with death he has to die just as he's about to die his healing factor (well wolverines actually) kicks in but its in a constant over drive deadpool can no longer die so he cant be with his love (also apparently cancer+healing factor is a bad mix)

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:09 am 
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The Little Manic
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Well, the original Deathpool may be interesting, but this one cannot talk, cannot dance and simply screams "baddy of the week".

:) Zos

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;) What can i say, Great minds think like Zoser

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Zoser (main), ElectroCute, CopyCatz, Fire.Fly, PaintItBlack, Kid Aurora, LittleJoe, Zoserino, Star.Born, Starchild, and Lightning.Strike

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:49 am 
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I'm sure they can fix the cannot talk bit... all they did was seal-up his mouth. I'm sure he can survive whatever would be necessary to unseal it again.

As to dancing, how do you know? :D

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:22 pm 
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well reportadly he can say Shhhhhhhhh so thers still hope

DAMMIT I WANT A DEAD POOL MOVIE NOW

Untill then ill just have to watch this over and over

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1R5PhReY5k





also see this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n3VSw1X ... re=channel

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Champions Global @MESS
MESS (20), Ink Blot(19), Toxic(17), Lady Domino(9), TRASH(10), Alpha(11), Dreadnought(19), Skree(22), Intrepid(9), Scourge(9),
Angus(1), Mr Meccano(9), Hard Target(5), Big Zero(18), Anubis(9), Dummy(1)

CoH Globals: @MESS or @TRASH
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MESS (50) Tank

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Tainted Mess (50) Brute, TRASH (50) Brute, Magmite (50) Brute, Smelt Furnace (50) Brute

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Catz wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:58 pm 
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The Little Manic
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Hehe, I had considered posting this - thanks for saving me the trouble.
I love the bit with the Comedian ...

Zos

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;) What can i say, Great minds think like Zoser

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Zoser (main), ElectroCute, CopyCatz, Fire.Fly, PaintItBlack, Kid Aurora, LittleJoe, Zoserino, Star.Born, Starchild, and Lightning.Strike

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:45 am 
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Betty wrote:
.... i will reserve judgement until i've seen it. Afterall, i liked the first Hulk.... :D


Ahhh I always have to dig up the old film threads when I catch up with you guys and your cinema trips. :?

On Friday I treated myself to the boxed quadrilogy of X-men. Yay! :D I was going to buy Wolverine because I hadn’t seen it, but for an extra few pounds I got the whole set.

We all sat down on Friday night with the popcorn on the new(ish) cosy sofa to watch it.
I luuuuuuuuurved it! :D
Jasmine luuuuuuuurved it :D
Jeff said it was “alright” :?

It must be a girl thing then lol. Maybe it was the fact that Hugh Jackman is erm…fit…. No no no I am not that shallow, but eye candy is a nice bonus!
Anyway I thought the film was really good. I loved all the action, super cool powers and moves. There were a couple of corny moments that made me cringe, but they were brief. I guess it helps that I haven’t read the comics so I am not aware of any discrepancies or changes to the storyline.

Anyway I give it the Betty stamp of approval. =D>

Now a little request for the film goers of Intrepids…. When Avatar comes out can you please review it on here?

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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:56 am 
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The Little Manic
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I am glad you enjoyed the film. :)
Avatar is one film I will watch for sure and I shall also write what I think.

Zos

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Catz wrote:
;) What can i say, Great minds think like Zoser

Level 50s in CoH - @zoser
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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Which avatar the James cameron effort or the legend of Ange(sp) one

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MESS (20), Ink Blot(19), Toxic(17), Lady Domino(9), TRASH(10), Alpha(11), Dreadnought(19), Skree(22), Intrepid(9), Scourge(9),
Angus(1), Mr Meccano(9), Hard Target(5), Big Zero(18), Anubis(9), Dummy(1)

CoH Globals: @MESS or @TRASH
Heroes
MESS (50) Tank

Villians
Tainted Mess (50) Brute, TRASH (50) Brute, Magmite (50) Brute, Smelt Furnace (50) Brute

The rest of my Alts

Twitter (don't expect me to update it)

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Catz wrote:
/em praise
You are God like!


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 Post subject: Re: "Wolverine" doesn't cut it! (Mild / Hidden spoilers)
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:36 am 
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The Little Manic
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Both! :)

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Catz wrote:
;) What can i say, Great minds think like Zoser

Level 50s in CoH - @zoser
Zoser (main), ElectroCute, CopyCatz, Fire.Fly, PaintItBlack, Kid Aurora, LittleJoe, Zoserino, Star.Born, Starchild, and Lightning.Strike

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